1 00:00:12,250 --> 00:00:06,150 you 2 00:00:19,210 --> 00:00:14,220 [Music] 3 00:00:21,790 --> 00:00:19,220 hi everyone so what I thought was I 4 00:00:24,999 --> 00:00:21,800 thought I'd use some of the earlier 5 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:25,009 talks and and the information and the 6 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:27,290 pigments and the evolution of those and 7 00:00:31,029 --> 00:00:29,690 see sort of put it in a context as far 8 00:00:33,130 --> 00:00:31,039 as like the planets are concerned to see 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:33,140 if we could detect these signatures 10 00:00:37,330 --> 00:00:34,730 remotely and what is what are the 11 00:00:41,229 --> 00:00:37,340 challenges in terms of wavelengths we 12 00:00:43,570 --> 00:00:41,239 would need to sort of prioritize or you 13 00:00:46,180 --> 00:00:43,580 know taking into account under the 14 00:00:48,130 --> 00:00:46,190 atmosphere and the cloud effects so I'll 15 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:48,140 start with this 16 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:50,210 this plot that I came across a couple of 17 00:00:55,959 --> 00:00:52,489 weeks ago which is based on the Trappist 18 00:00:59,440 --> 00:00:55,969 APIs system you know it was detected a 19 00:01:01,900 --> 00:00:59,450 couple of months ago the star being 20 00:01:03,580 --> 00:01:01,910 about 40 light years away and three 21 00:01:06,490 --> 00:01:03,590 planets happened to lie in the so-called 22 00:01:09,100 --> 00:01:06,500 habitable zone and what we see here are 23 00:01:15,490 --> 00:01:09,110 density curves from Zenit au which shows 24 00:01:17,170 --> 00:01:15,500 you know which shows what if a plant is 25 00:01:20,410 --> 00:01:17,180 made up of different kinds of materials 26 00:01:22,570 --> 00:01:20,420 like a pure water world of pure iron 27 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:22,580 world you know where would where with 28 00:01:26,170 --> 00:01:24,290 the planets form fall in terms of 29 00:01:28,030 --> 00:01:26,180 density curves now what we see already 30 00:01:31,960 --> 00:01:28,040 here is although these are initial 31 00:01:34,570 --> 00:01:31,970 estimates recent work carried out an 32 00:01:37,300 --> 00:01:34,580 odds on this front show that the 33 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:40,810 dat could be on the surface so I was 34 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:43,130 curious in terms of what if we detect 35 00:01:49,810 --> 00:01:47,450 what what it was can we have can these 36 00:01:52,359 --> 00:01:49,820 planets be potentially habitable and if 37 00:01:53,340 --> 00:01:52,369 so is the case can we detect differences 38 00:01:55,929 --> 00:01:53,350 between 39 00:01:58,300 --> 00:01:55,939 purely water world and a water world 40 00:02:00,550 --> 00:01:58,310 that has some sort of biota on it be it 41 00:02:02,770 --> 00:02:00,560 you know photosynthetic organisms like 42 00:02:03,940 --> 00:02:02,780 algae for instance or and can we 43 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:03,950 distinguish between these different 44 00:02:09,759 --> 00:02:07,610 algal communities algae are known to 45 00:02:11,410 --> 00:02:09,769 form large biological structures on 46 00:02:13,900 --> 00:02:11,420 earth and can be easily detected with 47 00:02:16,750 --> 00:02:13,910 high resolution spacecraft images and 48 00:02:19,870 --> 00:02:16,760 and they contain a diversity of pigments 49 00:02:21,460 --> 00:02:19,880 so most of the pigments that that she'll 50 00:02:24,670 --> 00:02:21,470 mentioned a nikkie mentioned in the 51 00:02:25,550 --> 00:02:24,680 earlier talks these these are very 52 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:25,560 commonly 53 00:02:29,510 --> 00:02:27,690 then photosynthetic algae and they 54 00:02:31,370 --> 00:02:29,520 usually carry out oxygenic 55 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:31,380 photosynthesis so you may not see 56 00:02:35,780 --> 00:02:33,450 pigments like bacteria chlorophyll which 57 00:02:37,190 --> 00:02:35,790 go out put in the infrared but you see a 58 00:02:39,199 --> 00:02:37,200 range of chlorophyll pigments and 59 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:39,209 accessory pigments which I will come to 60 00:02:43,970 --> 00:02:42,330 in a bit so one of the things we did a 61 00:02:46,759 --> 00:02:43,980 couple of years ago and if you haven't 62 00:02:49,790 --> 00:02:46,769 come across some of this work is we sort 63 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:49,800 of isolated a range of organisms both 64 00:02:54,380 --> 00:02:52,410 photosynthetic and non-photosynthetic 65 00:02:55,729 --> 00:02:54,390 organisms to see how the spectral 66 00:02:58,250 --> 00:02:55,739 signatures for a diversity of 67 00:03:00,470 --> 00:02:58,260 pigmentation types would look like not 68 00:03:02,900 --> 00:03:00,480 just for organisms that live in extremes 69 00:03:04,820 --> 00:03:02,910 but for organisms that encompass both 70 00:03:10,210 --> 00:03:04,830 the extreme and the niche environments 71 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:10,220 and and these can be accessed at that 72 00:03:15,500 --> 00:03:12,690 website here it's a hosted at Cornell 73 00:03:16,820 --> 00:03:15,510 but these are hemispherical measurements 74 00:03:18,949 --> 00:03:16,830 which means that they sort of give you 75 00:03:22,460 --> 00:03:18,959 the disc integrated reflecting spectrum 76 00:03:25,580 --> 00:03:22,470 for an organism and the whole spectrum 77 00:03:30,009 --> 00:03:25,590 goes from around 0.35 micron all the way 78 00:03:36,170 --> 00:03:33,229 so what we did here was we measured 79 00:03:39,259 --> 00:03:36,180 about 137 organisms containing the range 80 00:03:46,340 --> 00:03:39,269 of pigments but I'd like to use a subset 81 00:03:51,050 --> 00:03:46,350 of those for this particular talk so I 82 00:03:52,849 --> 00:03:51,060 considered about you know about 16 to 16 83 00:03:54,650 --> 00:03:52,859 algal communities containing a diversity 84 00:04:00,940 --> 00:03:54,660 of pigmentation and what you can see 85 00:04:05,900 --> 00:04:03,620 polyphyletic in a sense that you can 86 00:04:09,830 --> 00:04:05,910 it's distinct it's challenging to put a 87 00:04:11,780 --> 00:04:09,840 particular alpha microorganism or algae 88 00:04:14,420 --> 00:04:11,790 outer organism in a particular I'll go 89 00:04:17,330 --> 00:04:14,430 band based on phylogenetic you could 90 00:04:20,900 --> 00:04:17,340 have different classes of organisms in 91 00:04:23,690 --> 00:04:20,910 the same algo algorithm division or you 92 00:04:25,370 --> 00:04:23,700 could have organisms which belong to the 93 00:04:28,700 --> 00:04:25,380 same phylogeny that belong to different 94 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:28,710 algae so usually algae are sort of 95 00:04:34,399 --> 00:04:30,210 distinguished based on their 96 00:04:36,710 --> 00:04:34,409 pigmentation types and the the range of 97 00:04:38,269 --> 00:04:36,720 pigments that these organisms have is 98 00:04:40,099 --> 00:04:38,279 either evolution specific 99 00:04:44,089 --> 00:04:40,109 or depends on the radiation that is 100 00:04:46,609 --> 00:04:44,099 available to these organisms the other 101 00:04:48,049 --> 00:04:46,619 thing is that the absorption of these 102 00:04:50,239 --> 00:04:48,059 pigments depends on the in which 103 00:04:52,009 --> 00:04:50,249 individual pigment as well as the 104 00:04:54,199 --> 00:04:52,019 chemical environment limit in which it's 105 00:04:56,299 --> 00:04:54,209 found so you might have the same pigment 106 00:04:58,429 --> 00:04:56,309 but it might be in different chemical 107 00:05:02,559 --> 00:04:58,439 environments so the absorption shot of 108 00:05:08,659 --> 00:05:06,199 so here's a plot between reflectance and 109 00:05:10,519 --> 00:05:08,669 wavelength in the to Mike from point 110 00:05:13,249 --> 00:05:10,529 four all the way to two microns and what 111 00:05:18,199 --> 00:05:13,259 we see here is that a good example would 112 00:05:20,779 --> 00:05:18,209 be this diagram the plot in the towards 113 00:05:22,579 --> 00:05:20,789 the bottom the last three ones and all 114 00:05:25,699 --> 00:05:22,589 of them are red algae you know it looks 115 00:05:27,619 --> 00:05:25,709 green pink and red but they have the 116 00:05:30,469 --> 00:05:27,629 same pigments the difference is that 117 00:05:32,629 --> 00:05:30,479 usually for energy for instance you know 118 00:05:35,269 --> 00:05:32,639 psycrow editor in a psycho pilots 119 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:35,279 phycocyanin these are on top of the 120 00:05:38,929 --> 00:05:37,289 chlorophyll pigments and the abundance 121 00:05:41,389 --> 00:05:38,939 of those pigments these accessory 122 00:05:42,829 --> 00:05:41,399 pigments so they help and you know they 123 00:05:45,109 --> 00:05:42,839 help in photosynthesis but they also 124 00:05:47,359 --> 00:05:45,119 help in oxidative damage prevention and 125 00:05:49,129 --> 00:05:47,369 the abundance of that will decide what 126 00:05:51,169 --> 00:05:49,139 the pig color would look like if there's 127 00:05:52,789 --> 00:05:51,179 a lot of those accessory pigments then 128 00:05:56,179 --> 00:05:52,799 the algae tend to look red in color 129 00:05:57,889 --> 00:05:56,189 where the lack of them would give you a 130 00:06:00,649 --> 00:05:57,899 greenish color then because then that 131 00:06:04,119 --> 00:06:00,659 the chlorophyll pigments show up what is 132 00:06:07,969 --> 00:06:04,129 what you also see is that most of the 133 00:06:09,859 --> 00:06:07,979 organisms look quite similar in the 134 00:06:11,449 --> 00:06:09,869 inferred near-infrared vance because 135 00:06:13,069 --> 00:06:11,459 most of them have similar what 136 00:06:15,769 --> 00:06:13,079 absorption bands which is probably due 137 00:06:18,199 --> 00:06:15,779 to the water of hydration of both in its 138 00:06:21,109 --> 00:06:18,209 free and bound States but if you go to 139 00:06:23,109 --> 00:06:21,119 the visible band then that's when you 140 00:06:29,610 --> 00:06:23,119 see differentiate differences in these 141 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:32,500 what I'd like to do then is we took some 142 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:34,490 of these organisms and we started we 143 00:06:40,629 --> 00:06:38,570 reused a exoplanet atmospheric code 144 00:06:42,700 --> 00:06:40,639 called eggs a prime which is a 145 00:06:45,129 --> 00:06:42,710 one-dimensional coupled radiative 146 00:06:49,330 --> 00:06:45,139 transfer code which takes into account 147 00:06:51,370 --> 00:06:49,340 the stellar and planetary of parameters 148 00:06:54,100 --> 00:06:51,380 and calculates the reflection 149 00:06:56,950 --> 00:06:54,110 transmission and emission spectrum for a 150 00:06:58,300 --> 00:06:56,960 planet the code in turn consists of a 151 00:07:00,370 --> 00:06:58,310 one-dimensional climate code 152 00:07:02,170 --> 00:07:00,380 one-dimensional for a chemistry code and 153 00:07:04,690 --> 00:07:02,180 one-dimensional radiative cap transfer 154 00:07:06,879 --> 00:07:04,700 code what we started off initially doing 155 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:06,889 is like the previous talk that Jack 156 00:07:11,980 --> 00:07:10,250 mentioned we we covered we covered an 157 00:07:14,620 --> 00:07:11,990 entire surface with a particular 158 00:07:15,610 --> 00:07:14,630 organism to to get a sense of the 159 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:15,620 general detectability 160 00:07:20,409 --> 00:07:18,770 and the surface signal strength so we 161 00:07:22,900 --> 00:07:20,419 know what what's the sense that its 162 00:07:25,690 --> 00:07:22,910 maximum peak and then we started 163 00:07:28,409 --> 00:07:25,700 incorporating other other surfaces so we 164 00:07:30,670 --> 00:07:28,419 tried including we play started 165 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:30,680 exploring the parameter space for water 166 00:07:36,190 --> 00:07:33,050 then to see how these signatures would 167 00:07:38,469 --> 00:07:36,200 change if you were to have a lesser 168 00:07:40,210 --> 00:07:38,479 faction of the biota and compared to the 169 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:40,220 water fraction that's covering in the 170 00:07:45,310 --> 00:07:43,010 ocean we also play around with the 171 00:07:49,839 --> 00:07:45,320 parameterization for clouds to see how 172 00:07:55,350 --> 00:07:49,849 clouds would help or you sort of hide 173 00:07:59,020 --> 00:07:55,360 these features from remote detection and 174 00:08:02,140 --> 00:07:59,030 so here's a plot of it looks complicated 175 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:02,150 were to make it a little further in 176 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:04,970 Avoyelles so basically in the infrared 177 00:08:09,010 --> 00:08:07,370 portion so if you look at 1.0 micron to 178 00:08:11,020 --> 00:08:09,020 2 microns all the features look at the 179 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:11,030 same and these are primarily because of 180 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:13,250 these water absorption bands and the 181 00:08:16,659 --> 00:08:14,930 atmospheric effects with our next scent 182 00:08:18,300 --> 00:08:16,669 and so it's very difficult to probe 183 00:08:21,129 --> 00:08:18,310 through the surface in these conditions 184 00:08:24,610 --> 00:08:21,139 so if I look in the visible band then 185 00:08:26,770 --> 00:08:24,620 that's when surface features start to 186 00:08:28,450 --> 00:08:26,780 sort of come up so here we have in the 187 00:08:30,180 --> 00:08:28,460 blue color like right at the bottom 188 00:08:32,829 --> 00:08:30,190 that's the complaint that's 100% 189 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:32,839 completely covered by oceans and then I 190 00:08:36,219 --> 00:08:34,490 started playing around with the surfaces 191 00:08:37,850 --> 00:08:36,229 so I started increasing the surface 192 00:08:40,490 --> 00:08:37,860 coverage so 10 193 00:08:42,140 --> 00:08:40,500 thirty fifty seventy and hundred and you 194 00:08:43,940 --> 00:08:42,150 see that obviously four hundred you see 195 00:08:46,340 --> 00:08:43,950 more of the pigment character pigment 196 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:46,350 absorption and the pigment properties as 197 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:49,170 opposed to having some somewhere between 198 00:08:53,030 --> 00:08:50,610 you know some something like ten percent 199 00:08:55,310 --> 00:08:53,040 would where you have a 10 percent biota 200 00:08:57,050 --> 00:08:55,320 and a 90 percent water surface detection 201 00:09:02,150 --> 00:08:57,060 of these pigments becomes extremely 202 00:09:04,370 --> 00:09:02,160 challenging it if not impossible the 203 00:09:06,230 --> 00:09:04,380 other thing I did then was I tried to 204 00:09:08,150 --> 00:09:06,240 play around with the with a cloud 205 00:09:10,790 --> 00:09:08,160 fashion and again the same thing happens 206 00:09:13,190 --> 00:09:10,800 is before clouds sort of a have a very 207 00:09:14,660 --> 00:09:13,200 high reflectivity and clouds though 208 00:09:17,560 --> 00:09:14,670 itself have close to 90 percent 209 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:17,570 reflective II and they try to this they 210 00:09:23,030 --> 00:09:19,890 hide all the surface atmospheric 211 00:09:26,030 --> 00:09:23,040 features and and that's what we see here 212 00:09:28,790 --> 00:09:26,040 but if I go into visible again and if I 213 00:09:30,680 --> 00:09:28,800 go from you know a completely 0 passing 214 00:09:32,810 --> 00:09:30,690 cloud coverage to a 90 percent cloud 215 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:32,820 coverage I see that all the surface 216 00:09:37,670 --> 00:09:35,130 surface features tend to sort of 217 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:37,680 disappear at about 60 to 70 percent 218 00:09:41,930 --> 00:09:39,450 clouds fraction so we want something 219 00:09:44,540 --> 00:09:41,940 that we need clouds we do need clouds 220 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:44,550 because that helps in raising the signal 221 00:09:47,510 --> 00:09:45,930 so it's easy to detect because if you 222 00:09:49,310 --> 00:09:47,520 have a completely ocean world like the 223 00:09:53,060 --> 00:09:49,320 one in the blue then you're getting an 224 00:09:55,130 --> 00:09:53,070 albedo of close to 0.1 which are 0.04 in 225 00:09:56,150 --> 00:09:55,140 fact which is that which means that if 226 00:09:57,740 --> 00:09:56,160 you're looking at the planet the planet 227 00:09:59,180 --> 00:09:57,750 is going to look very very dark so 228 00:10:02,780 --> 00:09:59,190 you're not going to get any signal you 229 00:10:04,730 --> 00:10:02,790 want these photons from the planet so so 230 00:10:06,530 --> 00:10:04,740 you know these clouds will help get you 231 00:10:07,810 --> 00:10:06,540 an increase in signal but at the same 232 00:10:12,340 --> 00:10:07,820 time you don't want them to be 233 00:10:16,310 --> 00:10:12,350 overshadowing the complete atmosphere so 234 00:10:19,580 --> 00:10:16,320 so so mix somewhere between you know 40 235 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:19,590 to 60% clouds 60% looks at the optimum 236 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:22,650 band for these surface feature detection 237 00:10:29,620 --> 00:10:27,450 and yeah so I'll stop there by saying 238 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:29,630 that you know surface features look a 239 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:32,130 best detectable in the point four point 240 00:10:36,650 --> 00:10:35,130 eight micron band now with with the 241 00:10:38,690 --> 00:10:36,660 surface coverage of greater than 30 242 00:10:43,250 --> 00:10:38,700 percent in a cloud fashion of less than 243 00:10:45,860 --> 00:10:43,260 sixty percent the new future instruments 244 00:10:48,140 --> 00:10:45,870 like the GMT Seacliff which is onboard 245 00:10:50,810 --> 00:10:48,150 its respected graph on both the GMT that 246 00:10:52,910 --> 00:10:50,820 do to come on and 2024 247 00:10:55,370 --> 00:10:52,920 including other space missions like w 248 00:10:57,890 --> 00:10:55,380 first look war which probably will have 249 00:10:59,570 --> 00:10:57,900 these capabilities and for detecting 250 00:11:07,880 --> 00:10:59,580 such signatures for habitability and 251 00:11:16,819 --> 00:11:07,890 life thank you I think we have time for 252 00:11:21,889 --> 00:11:19,609 I really held her like blank Institute 253 00:11:24,229 --> 00:11:21,899 the solar system research in getting 254 00:11:28,910 --> 00:11:24,239 Germany my question I'm a bit confused 255 00:11:30,499 --> 00:11:28,920 about the aspect of cloud coverage I 256 00:11:32,419 --> 00:11:30,509 would guess that if you have more clouds 257 00:11:34,549 --> 00:11:32,429 than what you of course you get more 258 00:11:36,350 --> 00:11:34,559 photons but they wouldn't have anything 259 00:11:38,119 --> 00:11:36,360 to do with the bacteria that are below 260 00:11:40,429 --> 00:11:38,129 the clouds because they are just 261 00:11:43,429 --> 00:11:40,439 reflected stellar light so could you 262 00:11:45,739 --> 00:11:43,439 walk me through as to why your signal of 263 00:11:47,569 --> 00:11:45,749 the bacteria around the surface should 264 00:11:50,269 --> 00:11:47,579 actually increase if you have more cloud 265 00:11:53,509 --> 00:11:50,279 coverage now the cloud cover is I think 266 00:11:56,179 --> 00:11:53,519 a cloud coverage which increases because 267 00:11:58,629 --> 00:11:56,189 the clouds reflect a lot more light the 268 00:12:00,710 --> 00:11:58,639 bacteria would decrease the signal 269 00:12:02,900 --> 00:12:00,720 because the albedo the reflectance 270 00:12:05,090 --> 00:12:02,910 factor for bacteria let much lower than 271 00:12:06,319 --> 00:12:05,100 that so it'd be net integrated would be 272 00:12:09,410 --> 00:12:06,329 less than what you would have if you 273 00:12:13,970 --> 00:12:09,420 were to have this clouds by itself so 274 00:12:16,609 --> 00:12:13,980 that make sense Shawn Tomiko golden NASA 275 00:12:18,259 --> 00:12:16,619 Goddard so in theory if I'm interested 276 00:12:19,660 --> 00:12:18,269 in building a space telescope to look 277 00:12:22,039 --> 00:12:19,670 for signs of life 278 00:12:23,629 --> 00:12:22,049 would you have any advice in terms of 279 00:12:26,150 --> 00:12:23,639 not just the wavelengths but the 280 00:12:28,129 --> 00:12:26,160 spectral resolution yes we played around 281 00:12:30,379 --> 00:12:28,139 we we calculated those as well 282 00:12:32,929 --> 00:12:30,389 we tried we've been calculating the 283 00:12:37,069 --> 00:12:32,939 spectral resolution for JWST in the eye 284 00:12:38,539 --> 00:12:37,079 no JW starts in point six and it they it 285 00:12:43,699 --> 00:12:38,549 claims to have a spectral resolution of 286 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:43,709 150 for the visible and 150 was we could 287 00:12:49,970 --> 00:12:46,610 still see significant pigment absorption 288 00:12:52,069 --> 00:12:49,980 lines in the visible bands so I would 289 00:12:54,859 --> 00:12:52,079 guess 150 is good enough as well so 150 290 00:12:56,059 --> 00:12:54,869 sufficient but but you don't know what 291 00:12:58,369 --> 00:12:56,069 the what the cutoff would be for 292 00:13:02,150 --> 00:12:58,379 detecting or not is that yes so I met 293 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:02,160 with the MRSA days look Lopez at the CFA 294 00:13:08,419 --> 00:13:05,610 in San Francisco for the breakthrough 295 00:13:10,909 --> 00:13:08,429 meeting just this last week I was with 296 00:13:12,919 --> 00:13:10,919 Jack at fantastic and I spoke to her 297 00:13:14,659 --> 00:13:12,929 about the GMT Seacliff as well to ask 298 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:14,669 her what the resolution for the GMT 299 00:13:20,900 --> 00:13:17,730 would be um she gave me a couple of 300 00:13:22,340 --> 00:13:20,910 white papers but this she to take this 301 00:13:25,009 --> 00:13:22,350 they still don't have the final numbers 302 00:13:26,809 --> 00:13:25,019 on that yet but that's the case I would 303 00:13:28,809 --> 00:13:26,819 be interested in looking what what the